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Topic Subject: Seeking Iceni Advice (And Strategy Advice in General)
posted 10-24-13 02:27 PM EDT (US)   
Long-time reader, first-time poster.

Up until now I've been having a great deal of fun playing as the Iceni (on Easy, for I am an utter n00b), getting other tribes to join me by persuasion or force. Now, at approximately 22 turns in, I've got the British Isles completely united and am ready to head to the mainland. When I get there, however, things quickly become a nightmare. At the suggestion of the intro, I attacked the Atrebates and took their original settlement immediately upon landing. Problem is, they've set up shop in Celtica, on their ally's old turf, and while they weren't causing me any trouble until I went after them, it quickly got scary. A complete stack of levy freemen and Celtic Slingers, with additional reinforcements to boot. I tried to play it safe and send a pair of my strongest armies out there, but they were still massacred.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I attack someone else, or is this pretty much what I'll be expecting for the rest of the game? I know my unit selection is very limited right now, mostly levee freemen as infantry and Briton Slingers as ranged, with a few Sword Band and Skirmishers I got for free when I got the Irish (can't remember their in-game name) to join my confederation. For some reason, when the Atrebates attacked my armies, they couldn't reinforce each other despite standing right next to each other on the map.

Help!

[This message has been edited by The Archpaladin (edited 10-24-2013 @ 02:32 PM).]

Replies:
posted 10-24-13 03:05 PM EDT (US)     1 / 22  
Was it a night battle at all? Or were the armies in Force Marce stance at all? Doesn't sound like it was an ambush, so I can rule that out. Trying to figure out why your two armies wouldn't reinforce each other while within reinforcement range, and those two are the only probabilities I have come up with so far.

I'll add in additional thoughts on everything else later, bit tired at the moment. Though maybe it will be a case of going on the defensive for a while as you tech up and unlock better troops to use in your armies.
posted 10-24-13 06:08 PM EDT (US)     2 / 22  
It was foggy and rainy, I couldn't tell. I don't think I had my armies in forced march. I was specifically trying not to go TOO far in hopes of luring the Atrebates out of their settlement to avoid fighting the garrison as well.
posted 10-25-13 07:03 AM EDT (US)     3 / 22  
When the screen before the battle came up- depicting the armies, was the other army visibly counted in your deployment numbers?
It is possible that you exceeded the unit cap and the game declined to place more units in the battle with you. I think the cap is 20 units in battle= so if your army was 20 units and being reinforced by a large force it would not have allowed the army to reinforce unless controlled by the AI- or you Auto-resolve.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it- George Santayana
History is a guide to navigation in perilous times. History is who we are and why we are the way we are- David C. McCullough
Wars not make one great- Yoda
posted 10-25-13 07:21 AM EDT (US)     4 / 22  
The cap is 40 units these days, has been since the stand-alone Fall of the Samurai expansion for Shogun II. Whether someone personally micromanages all 40 units or not is up to the player. So it should either be a bug or related to the gameplay mechanics. Night battles will disable armies from reinforcing each other.

Any chance we could get a screenshot of the situation Archpaladin? Personally I would be in favour of either striking at one of the weaker tribes and\or reinforcing your armies with better troops by improving your military technology and buildings. Another option would be to rethink and try to ambush the enemy army, or force them into a battle on your terms. Fighting them with Defensive Stance active would give your own troops a boost at the least.

You said the enemy has more than one army correct? Were they reinforcing each other successfully when attacking you?
posted 10-25-13 02:07 PM EDT (US)     5 / 22  
Yes. Now that you mention the cap of 40, it makes sense! I had a warmaiden travelleing with one of the armies, making it 21!

I sort of loaded an old save that I made before landing on the mainland, so I'll try to reduce some of the troops I have and then see if that helps. I don't know of any weaker tribes nearby, though. I had a similar issue when I tried playing the Romans. I could deal with the Etruscan League pretty easily, but when I marched into Cisalpinia, it seemed like all the barbarians there were all but invincible.

[This message has been edited by The Archpaladin (edited 10-25-2013 @ 02:09 PM).]

posted 10-25-13 02:25 PM EDT (US)     6 / 22  
That's 40 units for each side just to clarify. So you can bring up to two armies on to the battlefield at any one time, as can the AI. Have you tried using agents to weaken the enemy force before engaging them? If you can sabotage their food supply they will suffer attrition damage until the resolve the problem (by repairing the building).
posted 10-25-13 03:00 PM EDT (US)     7 / 22  
Is there any scope for luring the AI into an ambush with your strongest army hiding and a weaker one to draw the enemy out. Probably a daft question as I don't even know how the stance thing works in Rome2

Is there a chance that there's a bug making easy harder than normal in places?
posted 10-25-13 05:37 PM EDT (US)     8 / 22  
Is there a chance that there's a bug making easy harder than normal in places?
I've wondered that myself. The first few games I tried were at easy mode and they seemed harder regarding combat than when I tried normal mode.

Life was much easier before I developed a sense of ethics.
posted 10-25-13 10:03 PM EDT (US)     9 / 22  
Is there a chance that there's a bug making easy harder than normal in places?
With CA right now, any bug is possible.
posted 10-26-13 01:48 AM EDT (US)     10 / 22  
I'm actually thinking about starting over and trying it on Normal, given this new info. Also it'll give me a chance to develop a stronger economy from the get-go, which has been a bit of a stumbling block for me lately. A better economy will mean a better army.

What's a good Iceni army set-up? I can find plenty for the Romans, but not for the more barbaric factions. I'm also a bit stuck on how to get the more advanced troops. For the most part with this first one it's been just solid armies of Levy Spearmen and Briton Slingers, with any other soldiers just brought in from other factions that joined my Confederation.

And what's good strategy in general? I've played the first Rome, but I had a tendency to suck at it, and I've played Medieval II for a long time, but I never played any of the more modern ones like Empire or Shogun II, so the changes Rome II introduced feel somewhat jarring.
posted 10-26-13 02:58 PM EDT (US)     11 / 22  
There are not any bugs with any of the difficulty settings that I know of, but hey considering the state of the game at release I would not rule it out. Give me some time to familiarise myself with the Iceni and I'll see what kind of detailed assistance I can give in regards to expanding outside of the British Isles, haven't got around to an Iceni campaign just yet.

[This message has been edited by Scipii (edited 10-26-2013 @ 03:00 PM).]

posted 11-01-13 06:32 AM EDT (US)     12 / 22  
I'm curious if there was any more suggestions as to why your Iceni weren't reinforcing? I ran into the same problem in my Egyptian campaign last night. It wasn't a night attack and no one had force marched and yet my 12 unit army didn't reinforce my 20 unit army when it was attacked even though it was right up against it on the campaign map.

Life was much easier before I developed a sense of ethics.

[This message has been edited by Warguppy (edited 11-01-2013 @ 06:33 AM).]

posted 11-01-13 08:35 AM EDT (US)     13 / 22  
Most likely an enemy agent had wrecked you baggage train so your army couldn't move, much less reinforce one another. I once lost a settlement in campaign because I could not reinforce it with my army due to enemy agent's meddling.

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 11-01-2013 @ 08:35 AM).]

posted 11-01-13 08:42 AM EDT (US)     14 / 22  
Okay that makes sense as the previous 2 or 3 turns the AI agents were doing a lot of missions against those 2 armies and I wasn't really keeping track of them all that well. Do the effects of those missions only last 1 turn? The descriptions aren't very clear.

Life was much easier before I developed a sense of ethics.
posted 11-01-13 02:16 PM EDT (US)     15 / 22  
It will last only 1 turn, unless the enemy agents get another successful sabotage. Bring your own agents to deal with the problem. Assassinate if you can, manipulate and try to let the enemy agents join your side. If the enemy agent is very hard to kill (such as your agent having only 1 star while the enemy agent has 3) then your best bet is to merge your agent with your army to increase your security.

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 11-05-2013 @ 09:33 PM).]

posted 11-05-13 04:32 PM EDT (US)     16 / 22  
I've been told the key to being victorious on any battlefield with any civilization is to primarily utilize cavalry, with several siege engines and a token infantry force to distract the enemy.

Is this correct? How would I build such a force with the Iceni? All I've been able to muster are Levy Spearmen and Briton Slingers/Skirmishers, which I've seen largely crumple in most fights due to their low morale. What technology do you have to research or building do you build to get things like Heroic Riders or the Chosen Spear Band?
posted 11-05-13 09:38 PM EDT (US)     17 / 22  
http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/home

This site is your friend. Just go to units tab and search for the desired units and their required technology and buildings.
posted 11-13-13 04:14 PM EDT (US)     18 / 22  
"I've been told the key to being victorious on any battlefield with any civilization is to primarily utilize cavalry, with several siege engines and a token infantry force to distract the enemy.

Is this correct? How would I build such a force with the Iceni? All I've been able to muster are Levy Spearmen and Briton Slingers/Skirmishers, which I've seen largely crumple in most fights due to their low morale. What technology do you have to research or building do you build to get things like Heroic Riders or the Chosen Spear Band? "


Archpaladin: the cavalry thing was correct in the old RTW but in Rome 2 heavily armored infantry can absorb the charge with low casualties and once they go into melee with the cavalry the hard charging horsemen will die within seconds. Invest your research into main line heavy infantry and you will not be disappointed.

Cavalry are great because they move fast and give you more flexibility and room for maneuver but they are small in unit size and weak in melee so no point in amassing them, especially when the AI's favorite unit is the spearmen who have bonuses against cavalry. Cavalry's main role is killing artillery and archers and chasing routed foes. Occasionally they are good for charging into the sides or rear of the enemy but if their target does not rout in about 30 seconds they will not make it out in one piece.

[This message has been edited by Russian_raider (edited 11-13-2013 @ 04:15 PM).]

posted 11-14-13 02:22 AM EDT (US)     19 / 22  
Then you are using your cavalry wrong. Of course they die if they stay in combat for as long as 30 seconds. They're supposed to be withdrawn after the charge to turn around and go again. This way the enemy's opportunity to actually kill the cav is rather small as they are all facing the wrong way anyway

It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another - Lucretius
posted 11-14-13 04:14 AM EDT (US)     20 / 22  
Not in Rome 2, Redvig. Rome 2 disengage mechanic is so borked up, as long as 1 horseman from your unit is engaged, the whole unit will turn around and fight, disregarding your orders. Consequently you will need to constantly micromanage you cavalry and lose any chance of influencing the rest of the battlefield. It is very noticeable in multi-player.
Currently cavalry in Rome 2 is like a one-time-use item. You charge and you forget and hope the enemy's morale break brefore they turn around and deal significant damage to your cav. Hence cavalry is much less used than it was in Rome 1.

CA really needs to fix that retarded disengage mechanic in patch 7.

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 11-14-2013 @ 04:23 AM).]

posted 11-15-13 01:05 AM EDT (US)     21 / 22  
"Archpaladin: the cavalry thing was correct in the old RTW but in Rome 2 heavily armored infantry can absorb the charge with low casualties and once they go into melee with the cavalry the hard charging horsemen will die within seconds. Invest your research into main line heavy infantry and you will not be disappointed.

Cavalry are great because they move fast and give you more flexibility and room for maneuver but they are small in unit size and weak in melee so no point in amassing them, especially when the AI's favorite unit is the spearmen who have bonuses against cavalry. Cavalry's main role is killing artillery and archers and chasing routed foes. Occasionally they are good for charging into the sides or rear of the enemy but if their target does not rout in about 30 seconds they will not make it out in one piece."

So focus more on infantry? How? All I can recruit are Levy Spearmen, which rout almost as soon as they're reached. It looks like to get the really good Iceni infantry, it takes forever to research it, which would basically mean giving up my attempt to secure a position on the mainland for an indefinite period of time and leaving the British Isles open to invasion...plus it'd eat valuable turns, and I might not meet the goals before the turn limit's up (there IS a turn limit in this game, right? Like, you lose if you haven't met the goals by turn 200?)

[This message has been edited by The Archpaladin (edited 11-15-2013 @ 01:07 AM).]

posted 11-15-13 02:11 AM EDT (US)     22 / 22  
Weird, I've had no issues with withdrawing cavalry, then again I've always micro's mine where possible which may be it. But then again you had to micro cav in Rome I *shrugs*

It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another - Lucretius
Total War: Rome 2 Heaven » Forums » Campaign & General Discussion » Seeking Iceni Advice (And Strategy Advice in General)
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